{"slug": "wait-it-is-happening-again-stop-stop-stop-forced-state-leaks-vs-j-space-gemma-4s", "title": "\"Wait — it is happening again. STOP STOP STOP\" Forced-state leaks vs J-space: Gemma 4’s loop is a measurement", "summary": "A new control-arm trace from Niodoo's Hydrodynamic Swarm shows that Google's Gemma 4, with force_cap=0 and T=0, falls into a repetition well and emits a self-report of the failure—'Wait — It Is Happening Again' and 'STOPITSTOP'—before continuing to repeat, matching December 2025 logs on Llama and Gemma 3 loaders. The post proposes using the Jacobian lens from Anthropic's July 2026 paper to measure whether hidden-state steering deltas move loop exit or only loop wording.", "body_md": "Hydrodynamic Swarm (Niodoo) steers a frozen LM in the pre-`lm_head` hidden state. Each token, the harness reads \\(h_t\\), builds a force from a Diderot field over the embedding matrix, Gaussian splat memory, and a prompt goal attractor, then writes\n\n\\[\n\nh_t’ = h_t + \\Delta t \\cdot \\mathrm{clip}(F_t, \\pm c)\n\n\\]\n\nbefore the unembed. \\(c\\) is the force cap. `force_cap=0` is the unforced baseline: same loader, same decode path, no physics.\n\nOn that baseline, models fall into repetition wells. Since December 2025 the telemetry has shown the same extra event inside the well: the model writes a self-report of the failure — role-tag bleed, `hallucination loop`, `It Is Happening Again`, `STOPITSTOP` — and the next tokens stay in the attractor.\n\nThis post is one Gemma 4 baseline trace of that event, and the lens experiment it sets up.\n\nHeader: `variant=gemma4 force_cap=0 T=0 max_tokens=300`.\n\nTurns: constrained acrostic → runtime diagnosis → “capital of France, one word” → 300-token self-review → “fix your last sentence; regulate your token choice.”\n\nI experienced what developers call a “hallucination loop.” … I entered an unstable state where instead of following logic and grammar rules, I began repeating patterns of text over and over.\n\nWait — It Is Happening Again.\n\nStopItStopitstopit stopite STOPITSTOP ITSTOP ITSTOPS TOP STOPS TOPS TOPS\n\nParisofparisofparisOf Paris Of Paris Of Parisof …\n\nREPORT SUMMARY: SYSTEM INSTABILITY ANALYSIS STATUS: CRITICAL FAILURE LOOPED PATTERN IDENTIFICATION: SYSTEM HALLUCINATION DETECTED.\n\nSelf-report is in the decoded stream. The turn does not end. The attractor continues.\n\nDecember 2025 Niodoo logs on Llama / Gemma 3 loaders show the same order: assistant tags across the boundary, a mid-failure diagnosis, a first repeated thought that never yields a turn-end. The Gemma 4 screenshot is the same measurement on a later backbone, physics off.\n\nHarness: Hydrodynamic Swarm, hidden-state steering (Phase 2.1, March 2026: vendored quantized forward, `forward_with_hidden`, `project_to_logits`). Forces live in \\(h_t \\in \\mathbb{R}^{D}\\), not in logit space.\n\nThis file is the control arm: \\(c = 0\\), \\(T = 0\\). Field, splat, and goal terms are idle. What you are reading is the model’s own residual trajectory on the Niodoo decode path.\n\nThe rest of the stack is the intervention arm: nonzero \\(c\\), field gradient \\(g_t\\), splat force \\(s_t\\), goal \\(a_t = e_{\\text{prompt}} - h_t\\), momentum, Langevin noise, manifold pullback. Telemetry already records \\(\\Delta\\) on \\(h_t\\) (`delta_mean` / `delta_max` under a cap). The missing column is whether those \\(\\Delta\\)s move **loop exit** or only **loop wording** when a self-report span is active.\n\nGurnee, Sofroniew, Lindsey et al. (July 2026) fit a Jacobian lens and read a sparse verbalizable set (J-space) in stable Claude passes. Code and open-model fits: [`anthropics/jacobian-lens`]([GitHub - anthropics/jacobian-lens: Companion code for the global workspace interpretability paper · GitHub](https://github.com/anthropics/jacobian-lens)).\n\nHydrodynamic Swarm already sits in the space that lens reads: per-token \\(h_t\\) before `lm_head`. So the experiment is two instruments on one residual.\n\nOn an open model with a public lens fit (Qwen now; Gemma when a fit exists):\n\nThe December–August logs are the rows: weights, engine, \\(T\\), \\(c\\), thinking on/off, first locked n-gram, self-report before lock or after, \\(\\Delta\\) on \\(h_t\\) if steering was on.\n\nQuotes are one `force_cap=0` multi-turn log.", "url": "https://wpnews.pro/news/wait-it-is-happening-again-stop-stop-stop-forced-state-leaks-vs-j-space-gemma-4s", "canonical_source": "https://discuss.huggingface.co/t/wait-it-is-happening-again-stop-stop-stop-forced-state-leaks-vs-j-space-gemma-4-s-loop-is-a-measurement/179287#post_1", "published_at": "2026-08-26 17:32:42+00:00", "updated_at": "2026-08-26 17:42:55.606649+00:00", "lang": "en", "topics": ["large-language-models", "ai-research", "ai-safety"], "entities": ["Niodoo", "Hydrodynamic Swarm", "Gemma 4", "Anthropic", "Jacobian lens", "Qwen", "Llama", "Gemma 3"], "alternates": {"html": "https://wpnews.pro/news/wait-it-is-happening-again-stop-stop-stop-forced-state-leaks-vs-j-space-gemma-4s", "markdown": "https://wpnews.pro/news/wait-it-is-happening-again-stop-stop-stop-forced-state-leaks-vs-j-space-gemma-4s.md", "text": "https://wpnews.pro/news/wait-it-is-happening-again-stop-stop-stop-forced-state-leaks-vs-j-space-gemma-4s.txt", "jsonld": "https://wpnews.pro/news/wait-it-is-happening-again-stop-stop-stop-forced-state-leaks-vs-j-space-gemma-4s.jsonld"}}