# No Figma. No Jira. No docs. How Gusto built a new product line with Claude Code | Eddie Kim (CTO)

> Source: <https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/no-figma-no-jira-no-docs-how-gusto>
> Published: 2026-06-29 12:03:38+00:00

**Eddie Kim** is the co-founder and CTO of the payroll and HR platform Gusto, which just crossed $1 billion in revenue and serves more than 500,000 small businesses. Recently he did something most CTOs don’t: he went back to writing code. With three other engineers and one designer, Eddie built Gusto Cofounder, a net-new AI product, from zero code to a tier-one launch in 10 weeks. He walks through how that team actually worked, why they threw out nearly every process, and how anyone can copy the approach.

**Listen or watch on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts**

### What you’ll learn:

The trash-can method: how to write, review, and delete a full PR as a product decision instead of a planning doc

The two-tool agent stack behind Gusto Cofounder

The exact “perma-Zoom” setup that replaced standups, retros, and Slack threads for 10 weeks

How a designer with no engineering background hit the 94th percentile for shipping code

The eval-first workflow Eddie uses to fix real customer bugs with Claude Code

How a non-technical leader can prototype an idea to win buy-in, then carry it all the way to production-quality code

### Brought to you by:

** Magic Patterns**—Prototypes that look like your product

** Jira Product Discovery**—Prioritize with insights, build with confidence

### In this episode, we cover:

([00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FKBkUCaLa8)) Intro: five people, 10 weeks

([02:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FKBkUCaLa8&t=158s)) The origins of Cofounder

([08:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FKBkUCaLa8&t=512s)) Inside the 10-week build process

([12:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FKBkUCaLa8&t=770s)) Building with no PMs

([14:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FKBkUCaLa8&t=878s)) The “trash can” method

([17:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FKBkUCaLa8&t=1035s)) The stack architecture

([19:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FKBkUCaLa8&t=1150s)) Shipping to production from day one

([22:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FKBkUCaLa8&t=1323s)) How a designer became a top engineer

([29:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FKBkUCaLa8&t=1745s)) Demo: Cofounder over text and Slack

([31:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FKBkUCaLa8&t=1905s)) Demo: running a real payroll

([36:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FKBkUCaLa8&t=2186s)) Live coding with evals in Claude Code

([39:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FKBkUCaLa8&t=2379s)) Recap: prototype, small team, permission

([43:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FKBkUCaLa8&t=2597s)) Lightning round

([48:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FKBkUCaLa8&t=2924s)) Where to find Eddie and Cofounder

### Tools referenced:

• Gusto Cofounder (early access/waitlist): [https://gusto.com/cofounder](https://gusto.com/cofounder)

• Claude Code (Anthropic): [https://claude.ai/code](https://claude.ai/code)

• Cloudflare Workers: [https://workers.cloudflare.com/](https://workers.cloudflare.com/)

• Vercel AI SDK: [https://sdk.vercel.ai/](https://sdk.vercel.ai/)

• DX (engineering analytics): [https://getdx.com/](https://getdx.com/)

• Wispr Flow (voice-to-text): [https://wisprflow.ai](https://wisprflow.ai)

• OpenClaw: [https://openclaw.ai/](https://openclaw.ai/)

### Other references:

• Gusto (the main product, “Gusto Classic”): [https://gusto.com](https://gusto.com)

• Mindbody (referenced as customer data source): [https://www.mindbodyonline.com/](https://www.mindbodyonline.com/)

### Where to find Eddie Kim:

LinkedIn: [https://www.linkedin.com/in/edawerd/](https://www.linkedin.com/in/edawerd/)

### Where to find Claire Vo:

ChatPRD: [https://www.chatprd.ai/](https://www.chatprd.ai/)

Website: [https://clairevo.com/](https://clairevo.com/)

LinkedIn: [https://www.linkedin.com/in/clairevo/](https://www.linkedin.com/in/clairevo/)

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