Eddie Kim is the co-founder and CTO of the payroll and HR platform Gusto, which just crossed $1 billion in revenue and serves more than 500,000 small businesses. Recently he did something most CTOs don’t: he went back to writing code. With three other engineers and one designer, Eddie built Gusto Cofounder, a net-new AI product, from zero code to a tier-one launch in 10 weeks. He walks through how that team actually worked, why they threw out nearly every process, and how anyone can copy the approach.
Listen or watch on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts
What you’ll learn:
The trash-can method: how to write, review, and delete a full PR as a product decision instead of a planning doc
The two-tool agent stack behind Gusto Cofounder
The exact “perma-Zoom” setup that replaced standups, retros, and Slack threads for 10 weeks
How a designer with no engineering background hit the 94th percentile for shipping code
The eval-first workflow Eddie uses to fix real customer bugs with Claude Code
How a non-technical leader can prototype an idea to win buy-in, then carry it all the way to production-quality code
Brought to you by:
** Magic Patterns**—Prototypes that look like your product
** Jira Product Discovery**—Prioritize with insights, build with confidence
In this episode, we cover:
([00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FKBkUCaLa8)) Intro: five people, 10 weeks
([02:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FKBkUCaLa8&t=158s)) The origins of Cofounder
([08:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FKBkUCaLa8&t=512s)) Inside the 10-week build process
([12:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FKBkUCaLa8&t=770s)) Building with no PMs
([14:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FKBkUCaLa8&t=878s)) The “trash can” method
([17:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FKBkUCaLa8&t=1035s)) The stack architecture
([19:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FKBkUCaLa8&t=1150s)) Shipping to production from day one
([22:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FKBkUCaLa8&t=1323s)) How a designer became a top engineer
([29:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FKBkUCaLa8&t=1745s)) Demo: Cofounder over text and Slack
([31:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FKBkUCaLa8&t=1905s)) Demo: running a real payroll
([36:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FKBkUCaLa8&t=2186s)) Live coding with evals in Claude Code
([39:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FKBkUCaLa8&t=2379s)) Recap: prototype, small team, permission
([43:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FKBkUCaLa8&t=2597s)) Lightning round
([48:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FKBkUCaLa8&t=2924s)) Where to find Eddie and Cofounder
Tools referenced:
• Gusto Cofounder (early access/waitlist): [https://gusto.com/cofounder](https://gusto.com/cofounder)
• Claude Code (Anthropic): [https://claude.ai/code](https://claude.ai/code)
• Cloudflare Workers: [https://workers.cloudflare.com/](https://workers.cloudflare.com/)
• Vercel AI SDK: [https://sdk.vercel.ai/](https://sdk.vercel.ai/)
• DX (engineering analytics): [https://getdx.com/](https://getdx.com/)
• Wispr Flow (voice-to-text): [https://wisprflow.ai](https://wisprflow.ai)
• OpenClaw: [https://openclaw.ai/](https://openclaw.ai/)
Other references:
• Gusto (the main product, “Gusto Classic”): [https://gusto.com](https://gusto.com)
• Mindbody (referenced as customer data source): [https://www.mindbodyonline.com/](https://www.mindbodyonline.com/)
Where to find Eddie Kim:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/edawerd/
Where to find Claire Vo:
ChatPRD: [https://www.chatprd.ai/](https://www.chatprd.ai/)
Website: [https://clairevo.com/](https://clairevo.com/)
LinkedIn: [https://www.linkedin.com/in/clairevo/](https://www.linkedin.com/in/clairevo/)
Production and marketing by [https://penname.co/](https://penname.co/). For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [[email protected]](/cdn-cgi/l/email-protection).