Father of the iPod and iPhone on building taste, judgment, and creativity in the AI era | Tony Fadell

Tony Fadell, the inventor of the iPod, co-creator of the iPhone, and founder of Nest, discussed the heated internal debates over whether the iPhone should have a physical keyboard and warned that cognitive surrender to AI is the biggest risk facing product builders today. In a new interview, Fadell argued that opinion-based decisions are essential for first-version products and that voice will eventually become the primary interface with AI, while also revealing how the iPod almost failed due to marketing challenges.

Tony Fadell created the iPod, co-created the iPhone, and founded Nest which he sold to Google for $3.2 billion . He’s co-authored over 300 patents, was part of the legendary team at General Magic, and wrote one of the most important and inspiring books for builders, called Build . Listen on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts In our in-depth conversation, we discuss: The heated internal debates about whether the iPhone should have a physical keyboard Why opinion-based decisions are essential for v1 products Why marketing matters as much as the product itself, and how the iPod almost failed Why voice will eventually become the primary interface with AI Why cognitive surrender to AI is the biggest risk facing product builders today Brought to you by: WorkOS —Make your app enterprise-ready, with SSO, SCIM, RBAC, and more Vanta —Automate compliance, manage risk, and accelerate trust with AI Where to find Tony Fadell: • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tonyfadell https://www.linkedin.com/in/tonyfadell • Website: https://www.buildc.com https://www.buildc.com Referenced: • BlackBerry : https://www.netflix.com/title/81725542 https://www.netflix.com/title/81725542 • Functional systems: https://x.com/bhalligan/status/2051873396896518558/photo/1 https://x.com/bhalligan/status/2051873396896518558/photo/1 • Nest: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google Nest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google Nest • Everyone’s an engineer now: Inside v0’s mission to create a hundred million builders | Guillermo Rauch founder and CEO of Vercel, creators of v0 and Next.js : https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/everyones-an-engineer-now-guillermo-rauch https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/everyones-an-engineer-now-guillermo-rauch • Hermann Hauser on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hermannhauser https://www.linkedin.com/in/hermannhauser • Acorn Computers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acorn Computers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acorn Computers • Skunkworks project: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skunkworks project https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skunkworks project • Netscape Navigator: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netscape Navigator https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netscape Navigator • Unpacking Amazon’s unique ways of working | Bill Carr author of Working Backwards : https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/unpacking-amazons-unique-ways-of https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/unpacking-amazons-unique-ways-of • General Magic : https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6849786 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6849786 • Dario Amodei’s website: https://www.darioamodei.com https://www.darioamodei.com • Flighty: https://flighty.com https://flighty.com • Dave Chappelle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave Chappelle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave Chappelle • Humane Inc.: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humane Inc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humane Inc • Her : https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1798709 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1798709 • Spike Jonze: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spike Jonze https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spike Jonze • Waymo: https://waymo.com https://waymo.com • Snapchat CEO: Why distribution has become the most important moat | Evan Spiegel: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/snapchat-ceo-why-distribution-is https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/snapchat-ceo-why-distribution-is • Simbe Robotics: https://www.simberobotics.com https://www.simberobotics.com • Greyparrot: https://www.greyparrot.ai https://www.greyparrot.ai • Grok: https://grok.com https://grok.com • Cerebras: https://www.cerebras.ai https://www.cerebras.ai • Esther 4:14: https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Esther%204%3A14 https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Esther%204%3A14 • iPod Inventor and Nest Founder Tony Fadell Named MAD’s Inaugural Designer in Residence: https://mad.mit.edu/news/ipod-inventor-and-nest-founder-tony-fadell-named-mit-morningside-academy-for-design-s-inaugural-designer-in-residence https://mad.mit.edu/news/ipod-inventor-and-nest-founder-tony-fadell-named-mit-morningside-academy-for-design-s-inaugural-designer-in-residence Recommended books: • Build: An Unorthodox Guide to Making Things Worth Making : https://www.amazon.com/dp/0063046067 https://www.amazon.com/dp/0063046067 • Working Backwards: Insights, Stories, and Secrets from Inside Amazon : https://www.amazon.com/Working-Backwards-Insights-Stories-Secrets/dp/1250275717 https://www.amazon.com/Working-Backwards-Insights-Stories-Secrets/dp/1250275717 Production and marketing by https://penname.co/ https://penname.co/ . For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email email protected /cdn-cgi/l/email-protection 84f4ebe0e7e5f7f0c4e8e1eaeafdf6e5e7ecedf0f7effdaae7ebe9 . Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.