Dianne Penn is Head of Product for Anthropic’s AI Research and Labs teams. She joined in 2023 as Anthropic’s first technical product manager, when the entire product team was five engineers, and has since helped ship every model from Claude 2 through Fable, and helped incubate Claude Code, MCP, Skills, computer use, tool use, and reasoning. Before Anthropic, she helped build Alexa’s AI at Amazon and, before that, traded high-yield bonds at JP Morgan Chase.
Listen on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts
In our in-depth conversation, we discuss:
What Anthropic’s early days were like
The inflection points that turned Anthropic from an underdog into the fastest-growing company in history
How exactly Claude got so good at coding
The eval-driven development loop her team is pioneering
How to find joy in AI when everything is moving this fast
Why Claude’s willingness to push back is key to its success
Where human judgment remains irreplaceable
Brought to you by:
** WorkOS**—Make your app enterprise-ready, with SSO, SCIM, RBAC, and more
** Mercury**—Radically different banking, now with Command
Where to find Dianne Penn:
• LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/dianne-na-penn
Referenced:
• Anthropic: [https://www.anthropic.com](https://www.anthropic.com)
• Golden Gate Claude: [https://www.anthropic.com/news/golden-gate-claude](https://www.anthropic.com/news/golden-gate-claude)
• Dario Amodei’s website: [https://darioamodei.com](https://darioamodei.com)
• Scaling Laws and Interpretability of Learning from Repeated Data: https://www.anthropic.com/research/scaling-laws-and-interpretability-of-learning-from-repeated-data
• Tokenmaxxing: How Top Builders Use AI To Do The Work Of 400 Engineers: https://www.ycombinator.com/library/Pa-tokenmaxxing-how-top-builders-use-ai-to-do-the-work-of-400-engineers
• Garry Tan on X: https://x.com/garrytan • Anthropic co-founder on quitting OpenAI, AGI predictions, $100M talent wars, 20% unemployment, and the nightmare scenarios keeping him up at night | Ben Mann: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/anthropic-co-founder-benjamin-mann
• Anthropic’s CPO on what comes next | Mike Krieger (co-founder of Instagram): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/anthropics-cpo-heres-what-comes-next
• Introducing Labs: [https://www.anthropic.com/news/introducing-anthropic-labs](https://www.anthropic.com/news/introducing-anthropic-labs)
• Louis CK | about airplane Wi Fi: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=me4BZBsHwZs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=me4BZBsHwZs)
• What happens after coding is solved? | Fiona Fung (Manager of the Claude Code and Cowork Teams): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/building-the-most-ai-pilled-engineering
• The Anthropic Hive Mind: https://steve-yegge.medium.com/the-anthropic-hive-mind-d01f768f3d7b • How to build a company that withstands any era | Eric Ries, Lean Startup author: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-build-a-company-that-withstands
• *Fallout *on Prime Video: [https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CN4GGGQ2](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CN4GGGQ2)
• *Fallout* (video game): [https://fallout.bethesda.net](https://fallout.bethesda.net)
• Claude Tag: [https://www.anthropic.com/news/introducing-claude-tag](https://www.anthropic.com/news/introducing-claude-tag)
Recommended books:
•* Crucial Conversations: Tools for Talking When Stakes Are High*: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0071771328 • How to Raise an Adult: Break Free of the Overparenting Trap and Prepare Your Kid for Success: https://www.amazon.com/How-Raise-Adult-Overparenting-Prepare/dp/1627791779
• Incorruptible: Why Good Companies Go Bad... and How Great Companies Stay Great: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FWZZBPZB
Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].
Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.